The Prince George Symphony Orchestra's president heard a chorus of no's from council when he asked it to forgive a $17,500 debt.
Councillors kept returning to a January decision where it refused the B.C. Northern Exhibition's request to forgive its debt, arguing it would be unfair to treat the PGSO different.
"I couldn't support that and I can't support this," said Coun. Brian Skakun.
"We also have to send a message to the community, if you borrow money from the city of Prince George, you're going to have to pay it back."
"I'm not entirely surprised," said John DeGrace after Monday' nights discussion.
"I'm well aware of the precedent."
In 2003, the city loaned the PGSO $50,000 to help it address a $120,000 accumulated debt and a continuing operating deficit. At that time, the symphony created a new strategic and business plan and DeGrace said that accumulated debt is now "minimal."
"We were hoping to have that burden removed," said DeGrace, before saying he was pleased with council's "tremendous willingness" to meet with the PGSO to discuss other ways to offer support.
Although some councillors suggested they might be willing to extend the 2020 deadline, DeGrace said the PGSO planned to meet it "come hell or high water."
"There's not that much left," he said, but removing the debt would have given the symphony the ability to pay its musicians more and buy better equipment.
This year the city gave the PGSO a $58,000 grant, which further bolstered Skakun - and others - reluctance to offer additional financial support.
"I follow Mr. Skakun's thoughts," said Coun. Terri McConnachie, before praising the PGSO's work.
"Its highly valued... and I understand the sweat equity, I get it... but loan forgiveness, it won't get my support."
The way the system works can make budgeting difficult, DeGrace noted.
It can't make profits if it wants to receive city grants, he said, so often they will start the year off strong and then try to "finish on the right side of the bottom line."
No orchestra in Canada survives on ticket sales alone, he said.
For 2016-17 the board has approved a "very cautious" budget that will put it in a modest position.
"I think it really is a challenge," said Coun. Murry Krause.
"Denial of this request does not reflect on the value of this organization."
