Comments for And now the rest of the story at http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com , comment 1 to 13 out of 13 comments http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com Sat, 21 Nov 2009 01:00:20 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20081123162745/opinion/letters/and-now-the-rest-of-the-story.html#comment-15975 in response to Buzz's comment, i am the young man who was involved that night. I want to clear up things that unravaled that night. I went to the backstreet boys concert with my friends, although not much of a fan of them it still brought back funny childhood memories. After the concert i was seperated from my friends (keep this in mind in order to determine my level of apparant "rowdyness") I was walking back inside to use the bathroom and one security guard with an egotistical personality pushed me with one hand on the shoulder, i stopped, asked why he pushed me and explained that i just wanted to use the bathroom, so i tried to walk around them (didnt really wait for a response) I felt paying 75 dollars for a concert ticket would at least allow me the privilge of using the bathroom. Upon beginning to move around the security the one security guard went in for a tackle. He was at my ankles and was trying to get me down.. obviously i didnt want to go down so i resisted (it was rainy and snowy out) so i ended up on top of him (absoloutely zero punches were thrown) the other security guard realized his partner was in trouble he tried to get me off (quite physically) so i pulled out his legs with my hands and he ended up on the ground. At this point i got off and just wanted to get out of there, i didnt want any trouble i just wanted to go home (i had class in the morning). upon getting up "back up" came. Back-up arrived in a rather violent nature. Another security guard rushed me from the side and again tried to tackle me down, while the two behind me were running up to get me again. At this point i was scared, adrenaline was running rampant, and panic struck in. At this point, a fourth security guard ran at me from the corner of my eye. At this point is where i threw a punch (one punch), the punch wasnt out of hatred or due to a violent nature, it was out of fear and instinct. After striking him, two more security guards tackled me to the ground with 5 of them being on top of me yelling and screaming at me. I ended up in handcuffs, when the cop came he was unimpressed with me. However upon entering the cop car he realized i was in a sober state. I find it funny how the story changes from multiple punches being thrown and multiple security guards being "injured". I also find it funny that although this one security guard was injured he made the unlikely comment of "oh that punch didnt even hurt". That was the icing on the cake. Finally, being taken to the drunk tank when i was discussing the state of our economy with the policeman. Love how stories change.. and to the writer of the first editorial, i thank you. You talked to my friend that night and he got your number as a witness. Very much appreciated. - roody Tue, 02 Dec 2008 15:36:37 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20081123162745/opinion/letters/and-now-the-rest-of-the-story.html#comment-15829 Reality, I think you're right that the truth lies somewhere in the middle. It strikes me as strange that most people believe what they read, never questioning that there is only one side to a story. - travhops Mon, 01 Dec 2008 00:12:38 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20081123162745/opinion/letters/and-now-the-rest-of-the-story.html#comment-15593 I think the real story lies somewhere in the middle. In the original complaint, it was said that the boy just wanted his hat back and to leave, but I find that a bit hard to believe since the security guards had to take him down and call the police. The original complainant also stated she was on the phone making a call, suggesting that it would have been difficult to know what else was going on before or during this incident. I don't see where Mr. Holmes suggests the incident with the boy was 2 hours after the movie stopped. The two points were not related, as far as I can tell. I dont' know, it all seemed ok for me. I waited inside and had no issue. I did see a rather aggressive youth, but nothing beyond that, so I can't say what did or didn't happen. Obviously it was an issue for some. - Reality Fri, 28 Nov 2008 08:15:10 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20081123162745/opinion/letters/and-now-the-rest-of-the-story.html#comment-15583 How does the original letter writer know disabled people were forced to wait outside? Just because she observed some people outside or did she actually hear them be told they couldn't wait inside. After attending a long, indoor event, I can't wait to get outside. I'm in a wheelchair but I dress appropriately and I don't melt. - travhops Fri, 28 Nov 2008 05:51:40 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20081123162745/opinion/letters/and-now-the-rest-of-the-story.html#comment-15578 1Jh: "His staff are paid to provide security, if they are involved in altercations, they should expect it as part of the job" so in this statement you are saying that because they are paid to provide security that if they get attacked they should not defend themselves cause it's part of the job. How is that fair?? If someone hit you or attacked you at work would you not defend yourself? Also if you were injured why did you not ask someone to get first aid?? There was firstaid at the concert and they were still there after the concert and past this whole incident. And don't say oh i was too scarred cause that is crap if you had gone to security and said that you got hurt due to them they would have taken you directly to firstaid and appoligized to you. I was also at the concert and was not forced to wait outside, i waited in the lobby until my ride came. I talked a bit with some security and asked them why eveyone was outside and they said that :those people chose to go outside and wait but there is one door still unlocked if they need to get back in for a good reason." Buzz is right your dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.You can't please everyone. To those who are upset about it go and become a security guard and see what it is like. - Jemimakitten Fri, 28 Nov 2008 00:27:13 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20081123162745/opinion/letters/and-now-the-rest-of-the-story.html#comment-15382 I agree with Buzz This story changes depending on which side of the fence you are looking at it from. I would ask Mr Holmes whether all his staff are licensed. I happen to know for a fact that he hires staff who are not licensed. He can deny that all he wants but he knows that's true. My point is that some of the security personal are not properly trained and if they were trained properly they would be aware of their legal rights and the legal rights of the patrons. Especially when security gets in to a physical altercation with patrons. I guess the CN Centre gets what it pays for. - kgs Tue, 25 Nov 2008 19:31:36 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20081123162745/opinion/letters/and-now-the-rest-of-the-story.html#comment-15355 Though I partly agree with Buzz, I think this is something typical in the world of event security and Mr. Holmes should know that. Unruly patrons and overzealous security are part of the business, CN Centre is no different. I hope Mr. Holmes doesn't completely believe his own version as the only one because he may be missing the point of the beginning of the issue and the end result. It began when someone saw some over zealous security screaming and yelling as well as the take down of a kid (whether justified or not, overzealous is the word that best describes what many people claim to have witnessed). If their actions weren't questionable then no letter about it would have been written which is the end result. Judging by the responses on past experiences with CN security it hasn't always been up to par and the training and attitude of Mr. Holmes and his employees will only ever change if they recognize these complaints as having more substance than the in house version they come up with. If they persist in the protect our own policy that is so prevalent in all security and law enforcement (top to bottom) then they have to accept not many will take them seriously in their public version of events or even in their job. No matter how Mr. Holmes touts his or his security staffs credentials it pales in comparison to real law enforcement and they are far from perfect on their version of events or public admission of wrongdoing. I'd like to see some video replay of this one. In the end hopefully Mr. Holmes and his staff is more aware that when they step over the line, even in doing what they deem necessary, there are people who notice and they will be more than willing to publicly question those actions if their overall experience is tarnished by yelling and screaming of angry yellow shirts or green coats including after the events. Lose the "We never have or will do anything wrong" attitude and people will give the security the benefit of the doubt more times than not. And remember you are in PG and as sileralias says "word spreads fast in a small town." - grassick Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:48:26 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20081123162745/opinion/letters/and-now-the-rest-of-the-story.html#comment-15341 Another example of damned if you do, damned if you don't. In this particular case, had the unruly patron started swinging at the crowd (he punched 2 security guys before they took action on him), then everyone would be screaming how lax the security is and how the public needs to be protected. This story changes depending on which side of the fence you are looking at it from. - Buzz Tue, 25 Nov 2008 08:29:30 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20081123162745/opinion/letters/and-now-the-rest-of-the-story.html#comment-15336 i have seen your "rent-a-cop" employee be abusive rude and in some words taking there job to seriously. I can understand that you need to control crowds and such but taking a 16 yr old kid by the scruff of his neck and throwing him up against a wall is not restraining thats just egotistical bullcrap. I suggest you remember that people always see things, and word spreads fast in a small town - sileralias Mon, 24 Nov 2008 23:12:11 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20081123162745/opinion/letters/and-now-the-rest-of-the-story.html#comment-15328 I feel compelled to respond. As a person NOT wearing a green jacket, and speaking with many who don't, there are an abundance of stories of CN Security being 'over zealous' - which can be typical of many security people. There are facts of Nov 16th that I know to be true because, quite simply, I was there and what I write of happened to ME. There were people made to wait in the rain and snow - I was, along with many others, including the disabled. There was screaming to 'get out of the building', I know, I heard it. As for being shoved into the concrete, I was hit by security as several of them took down an 18 yr old. As far as this subject, the point is being missed. It's not what happened before or after - it's what happened in the lobby - at that moment. I didn't feel safe and not because of the boy. I felt unsafe, and was injured, by the actions of the security people. I still feel there could have been a safer way of handling the situation, and I still feel it could have been much worse if less 'tolerant' person(s) had been hit. I find it amusing that the concern for safety of patrons referred to by Mr. Holmes never materialized in a comment expressing any concern about a patron being injured by his staff. His staff are paid to provide security, if they are involved in altercations, they should expect it as part of the job. I expected to watch the concert, use the phone, wait briefly for my ride to arrive, and go home safe and sound. That isn't what happened. Oh, and I'm assuming that Mr. Holmes doesn't mean the incident with the young man happened 2 hours after the music and just before midnite - I was at home in bed long before that. - 1jH Mon, 24 Nov 2008 18:06:51 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20081123162745/opinion/letters/and-now-the-rest-of-the-story.html#comment-15317 As a frequent concert attendee at CN and backline tech at other venues across the country and being in the front row most of the time from what i have witnessed the security people are doing an awesome job at CN. The only time people have confrontations with these guys is when they are getting out of line and pose a risk to the general safety of the crowd. Also working first hand at concerts you have to difuse a potential riot before it starts so this may seem a bit hash and unfair in some cases but it is neccesary. If securtiy has to enforce the rules they have a pretty good justification to do so. - TenBelowZero Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:38:01 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20081123162745/opinion/letters/and-now-the-rest-of-the-story.html#comment-15315 Thanks for the clarification Rod. I worked at a place where Regional Security was who we called when problems arose and found them to be well-trained, able to diffuse most situations before violence ensued, which is why I wanted to see the other side of this story. - travhops Mon, 24 Nov 2008 12:27:46 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20081123162745/opinion/letters/and-now-the-rest-of-the-story.html#comment-15300 I am one of the Green Coats that provide security at these concerts. We are continually reminded to provide a good experience for the partons attending. I and the other people that I work with attempt to do just that. Rod continues to remind us that that is our mandate. Of the many concerts that I have worked I have never witnessed any of the the security personnel, green coat or yellow coat, being aggressive. - thor Mon, 24 Nov 2008 09:02:17 +0100