Comments for Experts worry about continued rise in fetal alcohol disorder at http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com , comment 1 to 40 out of 20 comments http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:47:38 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080910150866/local/news/experts-worry-about-continued-rise-in-fetal-alcohol-disorder.html#comment-12036 Here's another point to digest Sojourn. There are many mothers (I was one of them) who have to work to support their families because of worthless deadbeat dads. My husband was making 150 grand a year in the early 80's and one of his biggest accomplishments in life (in his little mind) was that he was never forced to pay a dime of child support. I have the love and respect of my children - he had money. A working mother can have quality time with children, be succesful in a career, be both mother and father. It's called love. - travhops Sat, 20 Sep 2008 06:21:31 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080910150866/local/news/experts-worry-about-continued-rise-in-fetal-alcohol-disorder.html#comment-11970 You said it best, my compliments. How can any pregnant woman lift a glass, knowing she is harming her unborn child? It's true it is more common in lower socio-economic classes, but happens in all classes. I remember once hearing a pregnant co-worker bragging once about being so drunk the weekend before she was dancing on the tables at the Generator. I asked her if she wasn't concerned about FAS and her reply was "My mother drank when she was pregnant and it didn't hurt me." (A matter of opinion!) This woman was a Psychiatric RN. It's about selfishness, commitment to give your child the best start in life possible. Not all mothers have maternal instinct. - travhops Fri, 19 Sep 2008 07:18:23 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080910150866/local/news/experts-worry-about-continued-rise-in-fetal-alcohol-disorder.html#comment-11845 But even though time and again it is proven that irresponsible drinking costs the taxpayers tons of money in medical costs, insurance costs, etc..you can bet your butt they wont start curbing its use like they have done with cigarettes. Only because drinking is still considered socially acceptable and half the politicians are probably alchoholics. - MustBMe Tue, 16 Sep 2008 15:49:34 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080910150866/local/news/experts-worry-about-continued-rise-in-fetal-alcohol-disorder.html#comment-11840 where is a social worker when you need one???? - Mom1 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 14:00:34 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080910150866/local/news/experts-worry-about-continued-rise-in-fetal-alcohol-disorder.html#comment-11826 You can bang and slam all you want. I won’t retract my opinion because of your flame. If people choose not to see the correlation then that is their problem. You can throw up your hands and join the experts whom don’t have the answer either. Simply stating it’s stupid to drink is the cop out. It’s nothing butt stating the obvious. Mom1, right back at ya. I’m damn sure glad my kids were not raised around a person of your caliber. It seems to me at one time the government felt that it was best to put children in an institutionalized setting. And we all know how that worked out. If people want to send their children to daycare at 3 yrs old that’s their choice. But did anybody ask them what they want. They are little people too. - Sojourn Tue, 16 Sep 2008 09:06:50 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080910150866/local/news/experts-worry-about-continued-rise-in-fetal-alcohol-disorder.html#comment-11823 Sojourn, I have read comment after comment posted by you... I am glad that your family supports you because you sound like an idiot on here. I am a mother, I have a career, I didn't drink during pregnancy, I work harder at home than I do at work... so don't EVER tell me that I am taking away from my family by having a career. I do what I need to, to support my family, to raise a happy and healthy child.. and then someone like you preaches to me that I am less of a person, less of a MOTHER because I have chosen a career... I have never read anything so IGNORANT in my life. I am happy that I will never have to meet you and that my child will never be raised around a person like you.. the best place for you is sitting inside, sitting behind a computer, typing up non-sensical babble... Mike S... thank you for defending us working mom's against this arogant prick. - Mom1 Tue, 16 Sep 2008 08:30:28 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080910150866/local/news/experts-worry-about-continued-rise-in-fetal-alcohol-disorder.html#comment-11819 If anything, if a woman has such a drinking problem that she can't even abstain during pregancy, chances are she's too out to lunch to be working at all. Would you hire someone who comes to the interview smelling like a brewery, or retain someone who consistently comes in with an obvious hangover, or dtill drunk? I wouldn't. Mothers who are working are usually working because they need to. The cost of living has far outstripped what wages are worth. If a career is in the making because of the obligation to work, more power to her--beats the hell oout of wasting that time in a McJob--may as well advance if possible. The idea that there is a correlation between mothers working and FAS is so 20th century it's no longer funny. There is only one correlation: Drinking during pregancy can cause FAS. End of story. Demonizing women because they seek careers is naive and alarmist, and it's truly astounding that there are STILL people out there that insist on this line of thinking. Get out of the Cretaceous period, already!! - allniter Tue, 16 Sep 2008 07:11:11 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080910150866/local/news/experts-worry-about-continued-rise-in-fetal-alcohol-disorder.html#comment-11817 I don't see how women working can have an impact on whether mothers drink while pregnant. It just doesn't make sense. Women work for many reasons and it's their business if they work or not. Children benefit from going to daycare where they socialize with other children. Don't make women feel guilty for working. It's like blaming men for women havng to work because the man can't make enough to support the family or he's such a jerk that the woman has to leave him and become a single mother and then work to support the children. So, I think it's all the mans fault for FASD. - Katie McLeod Tue, 16 Sep 2008 06:21:24 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080910150866/local/news/experts-worry-about-continued-rise-in-fetal-alcohol-disorder.html#comment-11814 "The fact is there are more women in careers and there’s increasing...fuel prices. The fact is, The fact is, The fact is, ..." And who is being defensive? ============= "...zero respect or credibility among the vast majority given it's ridiculous and offensive nature. It seems to on this PG forum." Vast majority? That's in your deluded opinion! "This PG forum." All 4 posters? :) I have more members in my immediate family, and, the consensus is in, I'm hitting right on the money. It may be a sore spot for some though. Happy trolling mIKE ^ - Sojourn Mon, 15 Sep 2008 23:24:57 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080910150866/local/news/experts-worry-about-continued-rise-in-fetal-alcohol-disorder.html#comment-11813 Relax sojourn.. you're sounding a little defensive - going on about "..proving your opinion.." and '..liking your opinion..". (Methinks thou doth protest too hard...). You're entitled to your opinion which includes treating women as unequals and making disparaging remarks about many in the public service. It's not a case of 'liking' or 'proving' - it's just that I expect your opinion would get zero respect or credibility among the vast majority given it's ridiculous and offensive nature. It seems to on this PG forum. You summed your (non)logic driven opinion perfectly with your recent statement: "..The fact is there are more women in careers and there’s increasing FASD..". Amazing how you can nail that cause and effect so perfectly. How can that not be so obvious to all the educated people researching and studying this issue. Phone in your solution and save countless lives. Oh oh... wait a minute. I just thought of a few things... The fact is there are more women in careers and there’s increasing...fuel prices. The fact is there are more women in careers and there’s increasing... global temperatures. The fact is there are more women in careers and there’s increasing...internet usage. The fact is there are more women in careers and there’s increasing...population You've grown wearisome (yet again) sojourn. I had hoped, despite the odds, of helping the poor confused soul, but I apologize to the other readers here. I won't take any more time on this 'back and forth'. - Mike S Mon, 15 Sep 2008 21:32:38 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080910150866/local/news/experts-worry-about-continued-rise-in-fetal-alcohol-disorder.html#comment-11812 Well Mike, you still haven’t proved my opinion to be wrong. Just because you and some others may not like my opinion, doesn’t prove it wrong. The fact is there are more women in careers and there’s increasing FASD. You can call it a double standard if you wish but men will never be able to take the place of a young girls mother's advice. It’s the pregnant young women that are doing the damage to their unborn children. As for me being ignorant and out of touch with reality, ditto. I feel the same about you. It’s the lemming effect within you. You said, “What exactly are the levels of behavioral problems? What about…bla, bla, bla,.” . Mike, I gave you a link, now you do your own homework. Buzz is partly right, “…increasing because some people are selfish, self centered, …” But, he forgot to add in a part about governments (public servants), corporations, etc. … doing the same. As I stated above, I blame much of it (increasing FASD) on governments and its objectives and its brainwashing of the masses. Whether groups or individuals like you dislike my opinion does not concern me at all. My beliefs are not swayed by such things as, will I be disliked or not by so & so, or such & such a group. Also, I seriously doubt that anybody really gives a rat’s arss what you think, or about your opinions, or even if you quit posting here. Like island plans did. Now try to remember this when you sit at the keyboard again. Repeat this to yourself: I must not troll, I must not troll, I must not troll, … - Sojourn Mon, 15 Sep 2008 19:13:31 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080910150866/local/news/experts-worry-about-continued-rise-in-fetal-alcohol-disorder.html#comment-11809 I suppose one last irony is your use and accusation of 'trolling' (wherever you found that)... I can only think of two possibilities for your public servant bashing and misogynist comments. Either you really are that ignorant and out of touch with reality... or you are trying to anger those groups, (not that I'm sure either group cares what a stranger thinks). Take your pick. - Mike S Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:50:26 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080910150866/local/news/experts-worry-about-continued-rise-in-fetal-alcohol-disorder.html#comment-11808 Well Sojourn you have displayed some incredible examples of double standards and irony. I use the website YOU choose and you ask me to quantify percentages. A double standard since, somehow you don't attempt to quantify anything with your (partial) quote (you forgot the socioeconimic factor at the start of the sentence). What exactly are the levels of behavioural problems? What about "higher rates of depression and lower levels of self-esteem"? More rates and levels... but just how much? Got any of the percentages for those? Next time you ask for something, at least have the integrity to have provided the same - it would look less.. hmmmm..desperate. Double standard that apparently only men, according to you, can pursue careers with out somehow de-valuing families. Double standard that you tell others to stay on topic - yet the majority of your comments continue to have nothing to do with it. When you continue to simply blame women and governments it indicates your outdated bias and simple thinking. Sadly... nothing new. - Mike S Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:45:21 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080910150866/local/news/experts-worry-about-continued-rise-in-fetal-alcohol-disorder.html#comment-11805 Here's how it happens. Girls and boys at a party drinking and getting drunk; having sex; not using protection because it's just this once. Then next weekend the same again. Then the girl is pregnant and doesn't even know it and continues to party and drink. That's how a lot of FASD happens. Of course this is not the only scenario but it is one. The solution is the kids either need to "keep their clothes on" or use protection. - Katie McLeod Mon, 15 Sep 2008 17:37:16 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080910150866/local/news/experts-worry-about-continued-rise-in-fetal-alcohol-disorder.html#comment-11800 "It's hard to understand why," Hay said.." Looks like you've solved the problem. Pleas inform Dr. Hay!!! ==== “Blaming FASD on working mothers is a cop out.” That’s not you trolling in disguise is it Mike? - Sojourn Mon, 15 Sep 2008 15:54:04 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080910150866/local/news/experts-worry-about-continued-rise-in-fetal-alcohol-disorder.html#comment-11796 Well, "my dear", I enjoy my career. At this point it puts food on the table. If I were able to quit and be a stay at home mom, would I? Probably not. (unless of course there was a deep rooted issue that required me to – of course I would choose my family first). I did that when they were toddlers. I'm good at what I do and I'm very successful at it. It is a part of who I am. My kids are all in school full time. Having them go home after school and do chores, homework and start dinner teaches them responsibility and instills self worth and confidence. It teaches them to work as a team and to be contributing members of the household. Your opinion surrounds working moms and I don't think it's an issue about whether both parents work or not - it is how they choose to educate their children, how involved they are in their children's lives, how much they communicate and how "in their face" they are when their kids are out and about. It is about the values and morals taught and demonstrated within the home. Blaming FASD on working mothers is a cop out. I know plenty of stay at home moms who aren't doing that great of a job and have selfish brats for children who don't know how to do anything for themselves, let alone for anyone else because everything is done for them. I know of a few who have no clue what their preteens are up to on a Saturday night. Am I going to blame all stay at home moms for the increase of FASD? No, of course not - there are just as many who do a great job. It's about being involved, it's about taking care of your children, teaching them right from wrong, staying on top of them, knowing where they are and who they're with, expecting the very best from them in everything they do, it's about expecting A's and constantly encouraging them to get there, it's about supervising them, educating them, instilling self worth and pride. We live in a society where medicrity is the expected norm and it does nothing for our children. Some will rise above this and others will not and will find other avenues to find themselves – many in destructive ways. - Reality Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:23:04 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080910150866/local/news/experts-worry-about-continued-rise-in-fetal-alcohol-disorder.html#comment-11794 "...no significant differences in the scholastic performance..." What, can you not read? That's scholastic. "..Positive effects of being a latchkey child include independence and self-reliance...". What percentage is that Mike? ================================= "'blame game' against women" Trolling again Mike? If anything I am confirming my belief in the importance of mother's who choose to stay home. Unfortunately that is not always possible in a lot of families. And Buzz, thanks for the tidbits about yourself, although it wasn't necessary. However, your version of success is not necessarily the same other people's. - Sojourn Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:16:07 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080910150866/local/news/experts-worry-about-continued-rise-in-fetal-alcohol-disorder.html#comment-11793 Some quotes conveniently overlooked from the very website just posted: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latchkey_kid ".. In 2000, a German PISA study found no significant differences in the scholastic performance between "latchkey kids" and kids in a "nuclear family"...". "..Children from lower income families are associated with greater externalizing problems (such as conduct disorders and hyperactivity) and academic problems, while children from middle and upper income families are no different than their supervised peers..." "..Positive effects of being a latchkey child include independence and self-reliance...". Stop the 'blame game' against women, who have as much right to choose careers outside the home, as any man. - Mike S Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:49:48 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080910150866/local/news/experts-worry-about-continued-rise-in-fetal-alcohol-disorder.html#comment-11791 “…students left home alone for more than three hours a day reported higher levels of behavioral problems, higher rates of depression and lower levels of self-esteem than other students.” http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latchkey_kid Not to mention others. =========================== “Kinda contradicts the 'working mom' theory really.” Now wouldn’t that depend on the income? ======================== Mike you said, “…tangent of blaming working women ” Nobody is trying to affix blame as you say. TIt's my opinion about the possible causes. Now remember what a troll does? - Sojourn Mon, 15 Sep 2008 12:31:41 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080910150866/local/news/experts-worry-about-continued-rise-in-fetal-alcohol-disorder.html#comment-11786 Travhops you sound like a productive woman, who, in complete disbelief to some here, is capable of working outside the home, while also successfully raising a family. It is a shame in this day and age, that disrespect, ignorance, and stereotypes still exist towards specific groups such as women, and apparently, many hard-working public servants. I agree with you - there is hardly a link between working mothers and fetal alchohol syndrome. I think when there are no clear answers, or solutions, to complex problems, some people will take that opportunity to make scapegoats out of a particular group. Hard-working mothers seem to be that target here. Governments are also the target - but it's easy to see that some people have an irrational, prevalent (almost paranoid) mistrust of any and all government programs or research and turn every conversation into their 'anti-government' soapbox. Having an attitude of questioning governments, and making them accountable seems healthy. Some take it well beyond that. I'll try to focus on the topic (FASD), despite one of the first responses which tried to go off on the tangent of blaming working women. Research and education (nasty words to some), are key as with most problems. While education may be higher today than in the past, what some fail to grasp by making simple comments like that, is that there are still many out there with very limited education. We are talking about the exceptions and not the norm. The same goes for income levels. While FASD can occur in any socio-economic group, statistically it is more prevalent among low income groups and those with less education. Kinda contradicts the 'working mom' theory really. - Mike S Mon, 15 Sep 2008 10:58:19 +0100