Comments for 0 at http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com , comment 1 to 14 out of 14 comments http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:54:49 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.2 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080707139772/opinion/letters/disgruntled-discouraged-disillusioned.html#comment-8738 Haww, hawww, haww.... THat's tooo funny buzz. We all know the pols listen to the party line, which in turn works for the hand that feeds the party. NDP = unions, Liberals = big business/multi-national conglomerates. Should I list them off? Vote for independents. - Sojourn Thu, 10 Jul 2008 21:08:35 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080707139772/opinion/letters/disgruntled-discouraged-disillusioned.html#comment-8734 Hi Buzz, you're bang on about voter turnouts. I often chat with my buds about voting and have had one or two say they weren't going to bother. After a further chat with them about the dynamics of democracy, I can usually convince them to get their butts down to the polling station on voting day.... ....I hope...nonetheless, they all know by now that I won't let up on the subject. Was it 40% or 60% voter turnout in the last federal election? Can't remember, but I do know the percentage of people who couldn't peel themselves off the couch last fed. election was fairly high..WAY too high. - allniter Thu, 10 Jul 2008 17:29:49 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080707139772/opinion/letters/disgruntled-discouraged-disillusioned.html#comment-8696 Why do people have this need to go on attacks and get all definsive everytime someone vehemently disagrees with them? I crave a great debate, but I dread stupid mud slinging as that dumbs us all down. (I guess I'm not completely innocent either...maybe I'm giving myself some advice here!) Maverick: I agree..."Question Authority". I disagree with "frogs in a pot of water"...at least, it's not describing my reality nor the majority of people in my circles. Mike S: Also agreed...our political system is not completely broken at all, and opposition does work at times, and there are many examples of politicians listening to their constituents. This is especially true on a local government level, perhaps a bit less so for the Prov's and Fed's. Also, voting day is indeed our ultimate chance to run this country, but alas, look at the voter turnouts...perhaps it's the voters who need to look in the mirror as well as asking the politicians to all jump off a cliff or whatever nastiness it is that most people seem to want to suggest for politicians. - Buzz Thu, 10 Jul 2008 11:40:20 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080707139772/opinion/letters/disgruntled-discouraged-disillusioned.html#comment-8664 Maverick you seem to have displaced anger. You also seem to be making assumptions, and then arguing against those assumptions as if they are fact. Other than repeating most of what you previously wrote, you seem guilty of what you accuse (not reading posts). I will also repeat since you seem to simple to grasp what was said. YOU mentioned photo radar and the fact we have no control over it. I responded directly that there was opposition to it and it no longer exists (BC). This shows some control. I pointed out that it is possible to fight them, showing we do have an effective and workable constitution. I don't agree with 'innocent before proven guilty' which is why I fought it. Any clearer for you? I have absolutely no idea what you are ranting about with 'sheep' and 'heads in the sand'. More of your assinine assumptions likely. You have no idea of my knowledge or education level, just as I cannot assume someone else's. So your point to 'educate' myself is really, I guess, just a lame way of you saying how much smarter you are? Although, your comparison to the U.S. taxes, while not mentioning other factors, would contradict more than a basic education level. If a rational and logical response can get your goat, then you really need to re-assess if you should be posting in a public forum. - Mike S Wed, 09 Jul 2008 20:31:57 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080707139772/opinion/letters/disgruntled-discouraged-disillusioned.html#comment-8663 You just keep your head in the sand, like an ostrich. You didn`t read my post and that gets my goat...read the facts! I said "The GST, Income Tax, De Paties Law, Administrative Licence Suspensions, Carbon Tax, Fuel Tax, Photo Radar, Smoking Bans, proposed Drive Through Bans, Kyoto Accord...you can add to this list if you wish, these are things that we have had no control over whether you supported it or not. Some of these have been or are being experienced in BC or have been or are currently being experienced in other provinces and the rest of Canada". Some things do and don't exist in BC, but exist elsewhere in Canada. I have not set any limits on how much it cost's to run a country, but what country experiences the taxation levels that we do? For what purpose? That is the question I ask..."I appreciate using our roadways, seeing children go to school and being able to go to the hospital if I get hurt". What is an ideal system? Please tell us as ours is not working so well. I do understand economics, volume makes money, we have what the world wants and we are giving it away. Great for your generation, not mine. "Sadly, sometimes the only time we have our say, is on voting day." Like I said, learn and educate yourself. The British North America Act is still in existance today, as well as The Charter of rights and freedoms (1867, 1982 repestively). Your statement shows that you are nothing but sheep, laisez faire, let it be. You fought a photo radar ticket, there are those fighting for their inocence in DUI cases (Administrative Licence Suspension) that means that you lose your drivers licence before you are proved INNOCENT before a court of law...do you agree with that? This is happening right now. Again, do your research. Haven't you noticed that it doesn't matter who we vote for, are we any better off? You say apples and oranges, I say six of one and half a dozen of the other. Put your head back into the sand. - maverick Wed, 09 Jul 2008 20:17:16 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080707139772/opinion/letters/disgruntled-discouraged-disillusioned.html#comment-8661 One more point. I would say you are also wrong about ineffective opposition in all the cases you listed. We don't have photo radar any more. On a personal note, I once fought a photo radar ticket on a constitutional issue and won. I agree about 'having our say'. I think that has to be balanced with the logistics of running a government. Might be nice to have a referendum on every issue, just a bit costly and unworkable. Sadly, sometimes the only time we have our say, is on voting day. - Mike S Wed, 09 Jul 2008 18:33:31 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080707139772/opinion/letters/disgruntled-discouraged-disillusioned.html#comment-8660 Maverick I agree there is much waste in government and we all would love less taxes and more services. I do have a problem with your one comment: "..but does it really cost this much to run a country with a population that is 10 times less than the US, which has a lower income tax rate?..". First of all, if you understand economies of scale, it is usually less expensive, and more efficient (with limits), to run bigger organizations (countries?). More importantly, any comparison of tax rates with other countries, and especially the U.S. is completely meaningless. They have very different social programs and healthcare. Apples and oranges. - Mike S Wed, 09 Jul 2008 18:27:52 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080707139772/opinion/letters/disgruntled-discouraged-disillusioned.html#comment-8655 While we do have a great many positives in this country, we also have questions that should be answered..."question authority". Tax free day just came and went in June or 50% through the year, does it cost this much to run this country? Don't get me wrong, I appreciate using our roadways, seeing children go to school and being able to go to the hospital if I get hurt, but does it really cost this much to run a country with a population that is 10 times less than the US, which has a lower income tax rate? You and I go to the store and scrutinize purchases because we're not made of money. The government, on the other hand, has a blank cheque. Is this right? Where was our input? Do we know what it really costs to keep the roads, schools and hospitals in order? No we don't. We are getting taxed and legislated without any question or query from the people of this country and the government just runs amok. You worked hard for your money, don't you want to have some input on where it's spent and how? A piece of law or legislation that is being drafted, don't you want to comment on whether or not you support it? The government should answer to it's people, not the other way around. It concerns me to think of whats next. We can be compared to frogs in a pot of water. The heat is being turned up now, do you feel it or do you just shrug your shoulders and say "whew, it's getting warm"? The GST, Income Tax, De Paties Law, Administrative Licence Suspensions, Carbon Tax, Fuel Tax, Photo Radar, Smoking Bans, proposed Drive Through Bans, Kyoto Accord...you can add to this list if you wish, these are things that we have had no control over whether you supported it or not. Some of these have been or are being experienced in BC or have been or are currently being experienced in other provinces and the rest of Canada. It`s also being done with ineffective opposition. What do we do, you ask. Do we have any legal means under the BNA act of 1867 or the Charter of Rights and Freedoms of 1982 to ask questions? I don't know, but I want to know. Do we have such comparable things as the "amendments" in the US? Are we actually a democracy or is this just a fiscade? Thank you Tombstone81, your support is appreciated. We are a rich, diverse nation that has a great potential that can rival the US or any other nation in the world, yet we seem content with being the...frog in a boiling pot. - maverick Wed, 09 Jul 2008 15:49:39 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080707139772/opinion/letters/disgruntled-discouraged-disillusioned.html#comment-8642 well said I totally agree - kgs Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:10:25 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080707139772/opinion/letters/disgruntled-discouraged-disillusioned.html#comment-8638 Tombstone, your assumptions about me are all incorrect, with the exception of the baby boomer part (I'm 50). You also seem to assume that I'm okay with being willingly raped and abused by "the man", and that I'm okay with accepting injustice and flaws in our system. Just because I tend to focus on what's right with our country, doesn't mean that changes don't need to be continually made. (and I fully practice what I preach by the way, and no, I'm not a politician either!) I just can't stand these grossly generalized wide sweeping statements that end up meaning nothing if you're not willing to come up with some solid concrete action and suggestions for improvements. As in my original post, I'm curious about what the letter writer exactly has in mind when he says "take Canada back from the politicians". What does that mean, and what's your superior plan? I'm extremely interested in listening and learning. - Buzz Wed, 09 Jul 2008 08:55:29 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080707139772/opinion/letters/disgruntled-discouraged-disillusioned.html#comment-8636 Agree. It seems to me the voters complain but don't realize THEY are the ones with the power to make changes. I've met very few people who support the Campbell government yet he gets elected again. Show your disapproval with your vote. - travhops Wed, 09 Jul 2008 08:34:14 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080707139772/opinion/letters/disgruntled-discouraged-disillusioned.html#comment-8625 Buzz, you seem to like to challenge anybody in these forums who is anti-government, and I can't understand why. Sure, Canada's a great country in comparison to more than two-thirds of the world...but where in the rule book does it say that we have to always compare ourselves to the "have nots" of this planet and just thank our lucky stars for the chance to live on Canadian soil? Why can't we take advantage of our size, resources and democracy to become even stronger and more wealthy...instead of just shrugging our shoulders and thinking "oh well, it's just a little more government waste, more tax dollars out of my pocket...hey at least they're not making lamp shades out of my epidermis". If I had to guess I would say you're an aging boomer, perhaps a retired government employee and maybe even ex-forces? If I'm close in my assumption...and you've seen some nasty s**t in your day...perhaps visited other countries with worse economies, higher taxation, more corrupt courts oand political injustices...that does not mean that we Canadians should just be silent, while greedy and inefficient politicians do their best to bleed us dry! Government at all levels has forgotten what its purpose is and who it serves! It seems that every time a well-meaning individual gets into any governing type situation in Canada (on any level...be it a union leadership post, municipal councillor, or federal MP) they end up drinking the kool-aid and simply going along like sheep with the greater gouge & spend machine...losing all sense of the priorities that prompted them to run in the first place!! I agree with Maverick...indifferent attitudes like yours (i.e. "I'm just happy to be here and to have the opportunity to whine and complain") just give our leaders (whether they be corrupt, lazy or just plain stupid--or all of the above) the opportunity to continue wasting our money and coming right back for more. In the words of Bruce Cockburn, perhaps it's time they found themselves instead "staring down the throat of the beast we call the revolution". - tombstone81 Tue, 08 Jul 2008 20:47:01 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080707139772/opinion/letters/disgruntled-discouraged-disillusioned.html#comment-8614 It's attitudes like the post above that allows our elected officials to do what they will. There are no checks and balances, no limits, nothing questioned. Mr Barnes is absolutely right in saying "knowledge is power". Does anyone know what Mr Barnes speaks of? I don't, yet wish I did before. Unlike our neighbors to the south who know their rights and amendments inside and out, we don't have a clue if we even have anything close to what they have (and they are getting that whittled away). Taxes keep increasing, yet our wages can't keep up with inflation, never mind the rate of taxation. Our wages, in relation to inflation, have actually been falling. Our money now buys 30% less than it did in 1977. Creditors lick their chops, knowing that large amounts of debt are incurred and will take forever to pay back. It's an easy trap to fall into and very difficult to escape. Buzz, I can't speak for the author of this article, but I believe what he is trying to say and tell everyone is nothing more than...educate yourself, knowledge is power. - maverick Tue, 08 Jul 2008 16:22:47 +0100 http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080707139772/opinion/letters/disgruntled-discouraged-disillusioned.html#comment-8608 Written by a genuine Canadian! We love to believe we're so hard done by, and it's nice to have the luxury of being able to whine and complain about our terrible lot in life! ...And what do you mean "take Canada back from the politicians"? What did you have in mind? - Buzz Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:56:44 +0100