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written by travhops , August 16, 2008 (04:00:47 AM)

Well written response to a very insulting and condescending editorial by Mr. Strachan. He owes a lot of people a huge apology for that one plus I hope all those low class and uneducated gamblers study enough to be able to recognize his name on a ballot and not elect him again. I too have been known to frequent Winston's (although I prefer Ric's grill), however don't nosh back expensive wines as I don't drink. I've been known to frequent an art gallery or two, and my library card is well used. But I sometimes play Bingo or spend an hour or two at slot machines. Why? It's fun. If I win, great, but if I don't I've had a night of entertainment. His comments certainly smacked of elitism, which I found amusing as obviously he has no clue of what is going on in the downtown core. He certainly needs to lose the "I'm better than you are" attitude.

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written by yeahrite , August 16, 2008 (09:21:41 AM)

As long as people realize the gaming establishments are there only for one purpose-to make money for the owner of the establishment and the GOVERNMENT. The charities are only too happy to have their hands out for the crumbs they get from the net proceeds. They do not stop and think they are simply going to give back to the welfare class losers, who make up the majority of the "bingo" players.
It is mind boggling to think that most middle class folks are two "paycheques" away from being placed in a position of bankruptcy-porribly leading to homelessness!
It would indeed be very nice if all gamblers could be in the supposedly secure financial position that travhops appears to enjoy. Unfortunately this is far from being the norm. Sounds like a tad of bragging in that post-or is that my imagination? Must be something very special about Winston"s, Ric's Grill, the library,and? I have never heard of "noshing" back expensive wines, but in my day we called it "sloshing back."
I have difficulty in agreeing with the statement that losing money at Bingo or feeding the slots is "entertainment.?" I have never walked away after losing thinking, "Boy, now that was fun."
Guess I am just not as good a loser as travhops. Furthermore, I think people should spend their money on concrete goods and necessities, not "pie in the sky gambling!"
Oh well, to each his own. Enjoy-whichever side you are on!

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written by travhops , August 16, 2008 (12:44:34 PM)

You missed the point yeahright. I never said I eat at expensive restaurants often and the library comment is in response to Mr. Strachan's comment that bingo players don't visit the library. Neither do I gamble or play bingo often, but these places are not just frequented by the lower classes as Mr. Strachan insinuated. You need to read the original editorial. What is spending money at a movie theater, renting videos, going bowling, etc? Entertainment. Of course gaming establishments are there to make money, as any other business is. That's what bars, liquor stores, etc. are too. I am in a fairly secure financial situation, yes, and I got there by years of education and hard work. I guess you see slots in a different light than I do because I do walk away after losing thinking that was "fun"; granted, walking away after winning is definitely more fun. Getting a group of friends together and playing bingo is fun too, we have a blast. I don't enjoy bars, movies, bowling (I'm lousy at it) so paying $30 to play a few hours of Bingo is fun. Anyone who spends their necessities money on gambling definitely has a problem but I don't think that's the majority.

Re: "... know the odds of winning."
written by Sojourn , August 16, 2008 (10:02:47 PM)

Hey Bruce! I did have a little respect for your opinion when I read your column. Now I know what to line the birdcage with. You should stick to living off your govt pension.


Know the odds. Hey, now there’s a novel idea.

Hey BC Lotteries, why not tell the slot players how your computer games really work? Those nice little computer programs, and speeding up the churn really keeps those old record profits a rollin’ in for the government aye Campbell!

The BC government depends on addicts for a large part of its gambling money and the BC Lotteries is the government’s pusher.

tra…, let me tell you, if they depended on your gambling for “entertainment”, there would be MAJOR problems for the casino/bingo hall and BC govt/lotteries.

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written by travhops , August 17, 2008 (06:31:22 AM)

Yeahright, your post is contradictory. Obviously you're not opposed to gambling as you admit you play slots, just are angry if you lose? Of course the odds aren't in your favor, if they were there would be no casinos. However, people do win. It's just sheer luck. Those jackpot sirens are going off continually, and I love the sounds of them. It's a fun evening. No one forces anyone to keep feeding slots, you can get up and walk out at any time you want.

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written by yeahrite , August 17, 2008 (08:10:31 AM)

I did not admit to anything, travhops-, as I do not play the slots. I have never been inside the casinos. I played Bingo a few times many years ago, and invested a few dollars into the slots at least 10 years ago in another province.
It is not sheer luck--the slots are computers. They are set to pay out as how many would gamble if they did nothing but eat the money put in them. At least Sojourn is aware of some of the facts, and obviously looks at gambling realistically.
How would gamblers feel if the sirens were turned off and no flashing light identifying a machine paying off? This can be done by management.This display is simply to hype you up to feed the machine you are sitting at. No problem.
It is a stupid assumption that I am angry. I know how destructive this type of addiction is, but rest assured it has not happened to me. By the way-if I did gamble-maybe I could well afford to lose-and I am certainly not stupid enough to believe I would in all liklihood walk out a winner.
Gambling addiction destroys lives-both for the gambler and families, friends etc.
It seems like anything destructive is initiated by the government and heavily taxed to fill their coffers. Alcohol, tobacco, and now the suggestion is promoted to include drugs in the mix. Destroying peoples lives is the result of governments controlling the evils they so willingly subject the people to supposedly enjoy. The B C government declared years ago they would NEVER have legalized gambling in British Columbia. Seeing the stats as to the "cash cow" this form of "entertainment" was to some other provinces-it did not take them long to have a change of heart.
I say "They have no heart", but then again, if the public welcomes the opportunity to self destruct-then so be it.
Unfortunately some people just cannot "get up and walk out," until there is not a dime left to play.
Judge not, travhops, it is not your right. I am simply giving an opinion-not giving you the right to judge. Gamble if you so desire, lose your shirt, but try not to affect and hurt others in the process. Good luck!

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written by Reality , August 18, 2008 (09:35:08 AM)

Many drink until they are broke as well. Many who cannot afford to smoke still smoke. Many who cannot afford to gamble still do. Shut em all down! Liquor sales, cigarette sales, casinos!

It’s all about choices.

I do enjoy the restaurants downtown, I have an excellent job that pays very well and requires a brain as well as a degree. Yes, I do enjoy going to the casino from time to time and I see co-workers and other professionals at the casino from time to time as well. As far as my qualifications relating to my career, education, knowledge of fine wine, etc – I could compile quite a list, but there is really no point. Obviously, in Bruce’s opinion, this defines a person and deems them worthwhile. How shallow.

I found his letter to be very obnoxious, supercilious, arrogant and elitist and I just shake my head and wonder who the hell he thinks he is.

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written by Mike S , August 18, 2008 (10:44:19 AM)

I didn't see Mr. Strachan's original letter but can guess at some of it, from the reply letter. Ms. Marsden's letter sounds quite anecdotal with her observation of various player profiles. She then asks of Mr. Strachan "..Has he ever done or read a survey on bingo players?..". Has she? I found many online in moments. They all said virtually the same thing of player demographics.

"..people with less education and low family incomes were most likely to play (bingo). For example, over 16% of those respondents with family income less than $30,000 play bingo, compared with less than 10% in any other category...".

http://www.afm.mb.ca/pdf/FinalGamblingReport_Full_.pdf

I don't think anyone is stupid enough to suggest that every gambler falls into one category. There will be entire ranges, from moron to genius - dead broke to multi-millionaire. The point is simply that the majority of gamblers, and problem gamblers, come from a specific demographic group of less education and lower income. Anything else is anecdotal.

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written by yeahrite , August 18, 2008 (10:52:30 AM)

Just proof-we have the "high" class. "middle" class, and "low" class. Now, wherever, in whichever class the shoe fits--"wear it!"
This is fact-not fiction.
Mr Strachan obviously is in the elitist-or "high" class category. He has possibly had many admirable accomplishments during his lifetime, and realizes the penalty we all pay when addictions burden down society-as we all end up paying for the addicted parties-now don't we?? The addicts not only consider us fair game for thievery, but their addictions cost the taxpayer in many areas. Smoking, drinking, gambling, drugging-the ordinary taxpayer pays the majority of the costs associated with the downfall of the addict. It is the "bleeding hearts" that come up with all the wonderful programs aimed at rehabilitating these dregs of society. (Many are on a payroll for doing so.) Do not belittle me for giving reference to them as "dregs." After all, each and every poster clearly gives reference to "choices." So we pay to support these addicts because they made "poor" choices?
Well, what choice do I have? Can I state I do not want any portion of my taxes I pay, from my labor, to be applicable to support another person because they made poor "choices?"
How about the hard working taxpayer getting something "paid for," on their behalf, and not being penalized for making good "choices."
I would not be adverse to being my brother's keeper-but society demands I am obliged to be the keeper of too many "brothers."
Just an opinion-as I do not really give a damn as to how many people prefer to "self destruct." Just keep them away from my payroll.
Now you can all really scream in their defense, as you enjoy your fine restaurants, wine, and wonderful feelings of self righteousness, and hopefully you will increase your donations to the low lifers-even though you will fight like hell to keep them out of your backyard!
Yeahrite!

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written by Buzz , August 18, 2008 (11:25:16 AM)

At least Bingo revenues partially help with charities and the Canadian 'social safety net'. Yeahrite, what's the decision making process you use in your mind to differentiate what you're willing to pay for and what you're not re: "dregs"? If you break your leg because of an idiotic decision you made to go waterskiing, I don't want my tax dollars going to help you!! I'm assuming you are perfect in terms of taking care of your body too, because I'm not willing to have my tax dollars pay for any surgery for you if you've made bad decisions with your eating or exercise. It's not that I completely disagree with you about your fatigue of funding other people, but it's easy to criticize our social system, but a lot harder to get down to specifics and solutions. Again, who decides who gets help and who doesn't...what's the dividing line exactly, and who sits in the 'star chamber' to decide who to help and who to consider garbage?

Reality, yes some drink till broke, some smoke ...
written by Sojourn , August 18, 2008 (11:34:14 AM)

There is a difference though. We do not have government promoting those things as top quality entertainment, such as is done with the computer games of chance that are programmed with the help of physiologists to basically create gambling addicts.

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written by yeahrite , August 18, 2008 (12:29:18 PM)

Wow-some people just don't get it!
To assume I could not pay my own medical expenses and that I would be a burden on society is a direct insult-unjustified, uncalled for, and a prime example of a person who lacks the aptitude for rational thinking. Rest assured you will never be obliged to pay for any medical affliction I may suffer-not limited to "breaking a leg." Stupid talk to say the least. Hope your example is not to be directly attributed to your intelligence.
Bingo revenues go back to charities to help many bingo players. Check the stats--welfare days the bingo halls are full. When the welfare checks are gone-so are many bingo players.One does not have to be a rocket scientist to figure that out.
If one does not know what one would consider the "dregs" of society to be-then rose colored glasses are essential. Keep yours on!
The ones in the "star" chamber are the ones sitting in the offices of the benefited charities making the all mighty decisions as to the distribution of funds so gleefully accepted. They are not Robin Hoods. They are likely the recipients of monies from the poor to be distributed back to the poor.
It is a vicious circle-but the major money maker is the Government and the gaming hall owner. They are the winners-and how capable are they of making decisions as to who the recipients of the crumbs should be?
Some people just don't get it-and I really do not care!
Read Sojourns posting-following yours. Makes a lot of sense in my world! Could probably make sense if he or she posted an opinion of all addictions. Probably would be worth a read!

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written by Reality , August 18, 2008 (12:36:38 PM)

yeahrite - where do you think the money comes from to pay for your medical? Taxpayers. You get cancer from smoking for 25 years, we, as taxpayers pay for your medical care from chemo to hospice. How about adult onset diabetes brought on by poor diet? We pay for your doctors visits, your lab tests, your hospital care should you end up in a diabetic coma, or loose a limb or end up with kidney failure. How about that broken neck if you decide to go skiing and wipe out? We pay for your rehab. I think that's what Buzz was referring to.

Sojourn - I do agree with your post - thanks for pointing that out.

I do have to add though - there is a lot of talk about charities - how about sports clubs? There are many (if not most) that rely on gaming funds from the government in order to function. They are required to fundraise a great deal in order to receive it, but the gaming money is a very large piece of the puzzle and many sports clubs wouldn't exist if they didn't have it.

I do not dispute the addiction issue with gambling - there is an issue for sure. I thought the issue here is the stereotyping of those who may or may not wish to gamble.

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written by Buzz , August 18, 2008 (12:40:32 PM)

Yearite, your superior knowledge, rational thinking and intelligence speaks to me so loudly that it's deafening! Also, I'm glad to hear that you don't belong to the Canadian medical system and that you are 100% user pay. I guess under your leadership we'd just have to rely on your judgements on who passes the 'dregs' tests and who doesn't. I wish I was as deep a thinker as you so I could understand your views, which seem too simple for me to grasp.

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written by travhops , August 18, 2008 (05:59:44 PM)

The issue is stereotyping and not once in his editorial did Mr. Strachan say gambling was wrong, in fact he thanked them for adding to provincial coffers. What he did say is he wanted a high class downtown and that Bingo players weren't likely to eat a fine meal or fine wine at Winston's, visit art galleries or the library. It was insulting and a generalization about class. It came across to me as a look down your nose type of snobbery that we don't need in government. It's all about choices and a person's right to make them. I don't drink but that's my choice and I have no right to say because I don't like it, no one else should be able to enjoy a beer. Don't like casinos, stay out of them.

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written by yeahrite , August 18, 2008 (10:36:40 PM)

I am truly crushed! Unbelievable that the money I pay for Medical Insurance is not to protect me from becoming a "dreg" should I require treatment for that broken leg? Water skiing yet? Not hardly!
I have never heard such rubbish in all my days.
I probably pay more taxes in a year than most bingo players earn--take note--I said MOST! Don't want to get caught out on that statement!
Could it be a possibility my tax dollars may be paying for far more of you than you have been forced to commit to me?
I pay my hundreds and hundreds of dollars a year for Medical. Do the other potential dregs, as you relish the thought of placing me in that category?
I surely do pity the lot of you-making your snide comments, and believing yourselves to be self righteous as you do so. At least I am up front-nothing to hide except my identity.
Don't sweat it, and I certainly won't. I enjoy sleeping nights.
Think what you will-I actually do not give a damn.
Happy now?

Whew
written by Reality , August 19, 2008 (08:54:10 AM)

I'm allowed to think what I want because you don't give a damn. Thank goodness. I am so relieved and I can now sleep at night.

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written by Buzz , August 19, 2008 (08:57:13 AM)

yeahrite: eh? What are you going on about in terms of someone putting you in the "dreg" category that you invented? These written debates have their limitations in terms of trying to understand each other fully. You've completely missed the points I was attempting (and obviously failing)at making. As you "don't give a damn", I'll just have to continue on with my perception, and you'll carry on with yours. So much for that discussion.

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written by yeahrite , August 19, 2008 (03:29:21 PM)

Over and out. Ignorance is bliss-so stay happy!
Sleep well-first relieve yourself!
Misconceived perceptions are probably the norm for many in this day and age of insecurity.
Take care-thanks for all the imput.
I cannot lower myself to carry on with this foolishness.
Have fun!

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written by travhops , August 21, 2008 (09:03:02 PM)

I don't see Mr. Strachan as in the upper class. I think to write a column like that, looking down his nose at his constituents, doesn't even make him low class. What is shows, in my opinion, is that he has NO CLASS.

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written by Sojourn , August 21, 2008 (11:10:35 PM)

tra...

Re: ...his constituents, ..."

Am I missing something? Can you tell me what rep. office he (B.S. (Bruce Stracan)) holds?

..

yeahrite, just hang in here,

be happy, the trolls come & go on here.

It's not all that bad of a place for all the half dozen or so of us commenters to vent once in a while. ((: - :))

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written by travhops , August 22, 2008 (04:03:49 AM)

City council.

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written by dhood , August 22, 2008 (06:05:54 AM)

In the words of Fred Flinstone "BBBBBBEEEtttt, B-bet b-bet bet bet bet!! Life is a gamble! Everyone is a gambler. I bet the "Crew" burned the Bus for not giving them a big enough "cut".

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written by yeahrite , August 22, 2008 (09:25:45 AM)

I am now of the opinion "dhood" is far more knowledgeable of the actions of the gangs in this city than the majority of us. I, for one, have never been subjected to, nor resided in an area, which would make one fearful of gang activity. I avoid the downtown area which incorporates the lower 3rd avenue and George Street traffic, and I have no need to go down and be subjected to the pan handling and unsavory humans who appear to have taken over the area. Yes, I have seen them, as on a couple of occasions I have been to the bakery, but I no longer even support that business.
I believe the powers that be at Prince George City Hall have done a deplorable job of keeping this a clean city, as have the R C M P. Kinsley, the Mayor, with his meetings with Dahl Chambers, and the potential plans to effect major changes pertaining to criminal activities is nothing more than a laughable matter. Why are they not working industriously to have the Judicial system changed-so these gang member are not permitted back on the streets with a promise to return for a further court appearance on their own recognizance? They simply stroll back out on the streets to carry on with their illegal activities. Isn't that one hell of a deterrent? And we call that a Judicial system. It is a monstrous JOKE which the honest hard working taxpayer is responsible for paying for. We pay the City employees, We pay a fairly useless Mayor and Council, we pay taxes, we pay for needle exchanges, we pay counsellors, we pay to the charities, we pay to the government for a despicable system, we pay higher insurances due to increased claims by the honest for the thieving and vandalism by the criminals, we just PAY and PAY and PAY.
Is there an end in sight?
Is there a light at the end of the tunnel?
Will we ever sleep better at night, feeling safer?
Will we end up forming "vigilante" groups to protect what we work for from these gang members?
Or do we actually need protection from the next door neighbor who appears reasonably normal, even though they could be involved with drugs and illegal activities.
I have gone into offices and dealt with red eyed men who obviously had something in their systems which gave me the impression they were under the influence of a drug. Have you?
I do believe there are numerous business people who support the drug pushers. Do You?
I did not grow up with drugs, and the first time I encountered a heroin user was my mail carrier back in the 70's. I was also amazed when a person sat at my table, and stopped talking in the middle of a sentence-seemingly to doze off, and perhaps 30 seconds later lifted his head and carried on with the sentence exactly where they had left off. A couple of my first encounters with drug users.
Unfortunately, I have been subjected to a person who was a habitual user for many years.
Not pleasant-as I found drug abusers care only for themselves, and do not even take care of their children. They think nothing of stealing to support a drug habit. They lose businesses, destroy homes and families. They are no longer capable of living and working like a decent respected member of society. They become "sub human." Drug pushers,-or those who get others addicted to support their habit, should be subjected to the severest penalties, and locked away for a very long time.It is damned sad. I do believe more and more parents are being awakened to the fact drugs have become prevalent in this city-and there is basically no end in sight.
How many parents feel they can actually control their children now that all their rights have been removed?
To end this rant-I can only say, "If "dhood" is right, then there is no longer any value placed on human life in this country either, as who would burn a building with so many occupants lives endangered?" If this act was arson at the Bus, then the arsonists are murderers. What will happen next, as these gangs battle it out for control of the drug trade?
Will the citizens of this city ever go to City Hall, and the R C M P, and the elected government representatives, and the Attorney General, and DEMAND changes in the laws be effected to protect and promote security for the decent law abiding citizens in this city.
Better to build incarceration facilities to house offenders and keep them in-and not the soft life demanded for them by the "bleeding hearts."
It will only be for the betterment of society, for, as it stands-can we permit it to worsen?
If you do not fear for yourself, then perhaps you should fear for your children, grandchildren, and the dangers of living in this city in the years to come.
Pay attention-before it actually is too late.
Or is it already?

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written by Buzz , August 22, 2008 (09:33:44 AM)

Quite a speech for someone who has twice said that you "don't care"!! Your perception of life in PG sounds as if just about everyone is a complete idiot, certainly all leaders of all stripes! Your perception also sounds as if life is pretty close to being hopeless. To be honest, I felt sad reading your post. But then, the original letter was about playing bingo, so perhaps we've all gone astray here!

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written by yeahrite , August 22, 2008 (10:03:16 AM)

Can one actually go through life and "not care?" I hardly think so. Perhaps some care too much, and when no solution is on the horizon-maybe it does look kind of hopeless?
I am so glad you felt "SAD." At least you must have understood what was behind my rant?
I have taken off my rose colored glasses. I would like nothing more than to see major changes effected for the betterment of society.
If you prefer I limit my opinion to Bingo-I also have known people who would go EVERY day to play BINGO, and beg for milk money before a welfare cheque.(The more you wish to win-it appears the more likely one is to lose). Yep-I gave the money for milk-after all, the kid needed it. Did not limit the groceries to milk either-but I went myself to the store-did not want to hand over the money in case it went to bingo!
I have done many things in my lifetime-and I have helped many people. Perhaps this is why I despise seeing the decline with society that is becoming so evident.
Forgive me! If I am offending you, or causing you distress,Buzz, don't read my comments.
Speaking of idiots............!

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written by Buzz , August 22, 2008 (11:36:21 AM)

...charming....

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written by dhood , August 22, 2008 (11:58:48 AM)

Catch any fish with all that "trolling?" LOL