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written by kgs , July 15, 2008 (12:32:49 AM)

Tatiana I am very glad you have not experienced the dark side of downtown and I can see by your letter you still have a very positive. You mention you are a young woman and that my explain your enthusiasm. However I am afraid that in time you will see the dark side and when you see enough of them you might become cynical and burnout. Its great to have hope but unfortunately human nature is a beast and no matter how much you try to help you just can't help everyone. It has become apparent to me that not everyone welcomes a helping hand and in a lot of cases they end up using you for their own selfish needs. You ask that (maybe Mr. Olson should open up his mind and his heart and he may not feel he needs a gun and a vest to feel safe walking in downtown Prince George.) Maybe you can open your mind and heart and be a little more realistic and have less expectations from people who in the end can only help themselves in the long run. Keep up the good work because it is possible to help change the direction of someone who really wants to change their situation.

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written by Buzz , July 15, 2008 (11:21:38 AM)

It was nice to read this letter to balance out some of the over-the-top comments about the "hell-hole" downtown, making it sound like a horror movie of sorts. I too spend most of my working time downtown, and do not feel any more threatened or unsafe than most other downtowns across the continent. We do have downtown issues though, but just like 'potholes', it's easy to go a bit overboard at times focussing on just the problems. (Speaking of potholes, I was amused the other day as I drove the world famous Icefields Parkway and drove over large sections of really wretched road...it's in horrible shape in places. Made me realize that we're not the only place with a few bad stretches here and there)

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written by dhood , July 15, 2008 (11:25:39 AM)

On the other hand - there is serial killer out there somewhere who has never been caught!!!!

Yea,,,
written by Vogel , July 15, 2008 (11:41:15 AM)

Somebody hand this girl a giant hero cookie, Now lets get back to our needle point.

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written by AmberEN , July 15, 2008 (11:51:53 AM)

At least someone is saying something nice about whats left of downtown. I personally dislike going there not because I feel unsafe but because I just get tired of people bumming smokes or trying to get a few bucks off me cause they are "hungry". I dont doubt there are hungry ones out there but its few and far in between considering there is a soup kitchen right in the area that they are begging for money for apparent food. I just think that downtown looks ugly and with all the beggers down there it makes it harder to want to go down that area unless I have to but to those who have something nice to at least say about it...good for you...at least some of us still has something nice to say. And Buzz is right when people make it alittle worse then it really is. But there are alot of cases that I have heard of that you could concider as hell thats for sure but those are just a few of others experiences and not my own. I've had not so great ones but I am not basing my judgment on downtown on others thoughts and experiences...just my own.

Apples and oranges, Buzz...
written by tombstone81 , July 15, 2008 (12:34:02 PM)

I completely disagree my friend that ANYBODY on these threads or in the printed rag goes "overboard" when discussing the pothole situation in our city. Our streets and byways are an absolute disgrace when compared with cities of a similar size and taxbase, yet our tax dollars are being spent in far more wasteful areas ($400K gurantee to Horizon; 30% more civic employees than Kamloops at the $75K or higher mark; etc) when they could be going to proper care of our transportation network.

How can you possibly compare a highway through remote mountain wilderness (yes, it's world famous and very beautiful), that Joe Average Tourist might travel through once or twice in a lifetime, to a network of commuter corridors that 80,000 people need to use every single day???

My ever-increasing City of PG tax bill goes to pay for improvements that are never made here, or are made so poorly that we get no value for the expenditure and have to re-do it all again in a year. I'm not nearly as concerned about the tiny fraction of my federal tax dollars that go towards National Parks, and I have the choice not to travel through them if I think the roads are bad. I don't have that choice in my hometown.

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written by Buzz , July 15, 2008 (12:48:59 PM)

Once again Tombstone we are on a similar page in terms of our desire to see our infrastructure improved upon, taxes used wisely, etc.. My pothole comment about the Icefields parkway was an obscure comparison to the 'richer' province of Alberta, and the fact that they too have road problems. (I didn't bother mentioning some similar roads in Calgary). My understanding is that highway & road infrastructure right across Canada as well as the US (I think) has significant problems. I don't believe that means we should bury our heads in the sand and just say "oh well", however, I reject the idea that our roads are COMPLETELY terrible or that much worse than other places- I drive 40,000K a year, about 1/2 locally and the other half throughout BC & Alberta, and yes, there are some whopping potholes here and there in PG, but I just don't see it as awful as others. Maybe there are some streets I just don't know about??

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written by dhood , July 15, 2008 (01:17:06 PM)

I didn't realize this was the "pothole" forum unless you are insinuating the whole of downtown is a "pothole".

Not to worry guys
written by Vogel , July 15, 2008 (02:02:06 PM)

I've spotted 2 of PG's finest walking a beat down town, armed with tasers pistols and cavlar vested.So Mr Olson grab your purse and shop your lil pants off,,,oh ya be careful there's a guy riding his bike through mall parking lots thats hooked on wendys, can somebody please get thar guy help?

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written by Raparee , July 15, 2008 (04:32:53 PM)

Hopefully, Ms Allen, your open mindedness, your positive attitude, your willingness to help, and your overwhelming naivite doesn't get your petite butt stabbed and mugged.

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written by Another Guest , July 15, 2008 (05:14:01 PM)

I am a woman in my 30's and I also walk down town every day and have never experienced fear. I have encountered pan handlers and yes some of them are annoying but never scary.

Maybe some of you just need to grab a spine.

btw - it is mandatory for on duty police officers to wear those vests and carry their weapons - doesn't matter where they are.

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written by yeahrite , July 15, 2008 (05:16:18 PM)

Fools walk where "angels" fear to tread!
Perhaps it is difficult to see the forest for the trees?
Ask for trouble, and it shall surely fall upon you.
Throw caution to the winds, and discover it is not a boomerang! You will surely suffer the consequences.
Prince George is not a pretty place, and the regulars who frequent the downtown would lead one to believe it is best to "walk softly-and carry a big stick."
To each his own-but be prepared for the unseen.
Watch your back-they are not all nice people-and can do you a great deal of harm--and maybe it will only take one--but which one??
Take care! Better to be safe-than sorry.

Downtown
written by White House , July 15, 2008 (07:04:04 PM)

You know, I frequently walk in the downtown area both during my lunch breaks and on weekends. I as well am petite and 40ish. I have had people approach me asking for money & I tell them quite frankly that I have children and can't afford any spare change. Never have I been berated, accosted, or demeaned. In fact, I even had one person offer to give me some of the change he had garnered in his travels instead.

I believe that any area is what you make of it & if you express fear, indignation or whatever, that is what you will get in return.

I personally have had more less than pleasant experiences in the WalMart parking lot with owners of 4x4s who drive and subsequently act like idiots, thus passing these tendencies on to the children they have in the vehicle.

If you want to compare downtown PG to other areas, believe me there are far worse places of the same same size, larger and smaller which are not as friendly. Every community has its good and bad but in the grand scheme of things, PG is not that bad.

For those discussing potholes....have you ever been to Winnipeg? It is far worse and we really have nothing to complain about in comparison. Just my opinion, of course!

Cheers all!

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written by Angelrayne , July 16, 2008 (11:04:41 PM)

I took my 4 yr old daughter downtown and no one bothered us and we werent afraid to be there. I think some people expect certain things from "homeless" people, unfortunatley they have a stigma attached to them. Some are unable to help their situation and certainly dont need the likes of SOME people throwing labels out there about them. They certainly dont judge you, why judge them?

Taking the less out of homeless
written by StraightUP , July 17, 2008 (09:05:12 AM)

Putting that new "youth center" right across from a dive bar was the stupidest thing anybody could have ever done.

But somebody wanted it there. Places like ASAP who make poverty their industry should be downsized but only in tandem with the elimination of poverty.

Lets face it. The "impoverished" downtown core is habituated with impoverished people.

People who "live down there" have no conception of anything better so always 'defend their turf' defensively because they are so poor they cant think objectively or look at the situation from others view.

George ST: Broken bottles, urinated sidewalks/doorposts, fights, people yelling/swearing, congregating people asking for change/cigarettes, vacant stores, for sale signs

People who say or defend these common folk and their right to habitually ask for change as a way of life unfortunately dont have anythng else better to offer them Unfortunately neither do I. I would love to see more self-empowerment though.

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written by travhops , July 17, 2008 (10:35:24 AM)

I'd say they certainly do judge you and I don't know what criteria you base that statement on. I've never gone more than 2 blocks there without someone after me for money or cigarettes, have had very persistent ones follow me, have had threats of tipping my wheelchair over, etc. It is a place I prefer not to be. I have also seen the fights, broken bottles, public urination, lewd comments to women, etc. Maybe it's all in the environment you're used to but I don't like it there and stay away. I was also robbed and beaten up downtown, as have been several friends using mobility devices. As the police told me, when they are looking for a victim they look for who they think is the most vulnerable, most likely to be intimidated, etc. I'd call that judging. Personally I'd never expose a child to that.

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written by allniter , July 20, 2008 (10:03:23 PM)

travhops, that's awful that someone would do that to you. The lowest of the low--something less human, IMO. Didn't I read sometime ago that there were going to be police officers walking a beat downtown?...seems to me that the City was talking about it at one time. There should be.

I have to go downtown and only saw a beat cop once in the last few years.

Other cities are bringing forth bylaws against aggressive panhandling (e.g., squeegee kids). Not only should it be done here, the bylaw should be enforced. As for meetings with the Chinese, City Council should use the Internet and webcams and spend the money on the City, where it belongs.

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written by travhops , July 21, 2008 (08:37:32 AM)

It has happened often with disabled people and seniors and is so bad I no longer leave my house at night, carry pepper spray, a whistle and cell phone. I will not go downtown. I will say that when I was robbed, the RCMP and courts took it very seriously but I'm tired of feeling like a prisoner in my home while the yuckies control the downtown and the night. I'd love to see an enforced bylaw against panhandling, see the people drinking in public arrested, a general clean up of the downtown core.

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written by Beksterb , July 21, 2008 (11:58:51 AM)

I also work very close to the 3rd and George St. area. So close that if I spit, I'd hit whomever was passed out on the corner. I see everyday open use of crack, vehicles of dealer's parked out front. Traffic coming and going from those vehicles. I work with those names that are familiar to anyone who has their head out of their rear--you know, the families who "you should stear clear of". I too was once afraid to cross paths with all of these homeless, crack addicted useless excuses for people. Well, you know what? I looked into their eyes. I was no longer afraid. I saw a hurt young girl, doing the only thing she knows how to do--survive. I looked into a brother's eyes, and saw the pain of his father and brother who were smoking crack right next to him. I watched and listened as two of these useless people played on their guitar together, father and son making music. I enjoyed that moment of peace and harmony. In that moment, I saw for myself for who they really are. They are brothers, fathers, sisters, and mothers who were (and still are) beaten down, kicked around and told they were good for nothing. Don't get me wrong, I still watch my back and take precautions. I am no fool. I listen to the big debate about downtown. I listen as names and insults are hurled. I think somewhere along the way we forgot that these are people. They are loved and missed by family members. I hear everyone so quick to judge...why is everyone not so quick to help? I wonder often if those of you who sit on your soapbox have ever offered to volunteer for one of the agencies, such as mine, who are overworked and underfunded-so that you can actually help to make a difference? It's a scary thought, isnt it? To get out of your comfort zone and help instead of throwing stones. You could be the difference! You could help someone find their sobriety. You could find someone a home to call their own. These human beings are there for a reason. Some by choice, some by circumstance. Once you are caught up in the cycle of drug abuse, you don't see that you still have choices. If you are addicted, homeless and have a disease such as HIV/AIDS good luck getting out of your rut. You spend your entire life looking for shelter, finding food and of course, getting your next fix. (Never mind living with the symptoms of your disease--and try to get help at the hospital? Good luck! You are dismissed, because you are dirty, and probably don't have pain, you just want the drugs to get high!)Don't be afraid. Be willing to be part of the solution. These PEOPLE need us. All of us. They are not garbage. Many of them were once productive citizens. And let me tell you...there are people out there who look just like me, and probably you who are those that are parked downtown buying drugs from these people; they are the ones buying sex from our young girls; they are the ones parked outside of my work selling to these people. It is really disgusting. They will then turn around and blame, even though they are keeping the circle going.
Come out of your safety. Get invloved. Help. Don't step over that guy passed out on the street. At least stop and ask him if he is alive, if he needs help.
To the RCMP-when you are called to 3rd and George, because a young girl is getting beat up by four or five men, don't come as far as the alley and turn around. Do your job. Fight crime and arrest those who are openly abusing our streets and showing complete disregard for the law. See that guy--you know, the blue collar guy--don't you think he is more of a waste of human life for buying sex, or crack than the one he is taking advantage of?
It's so overwhelming at times...and I can ramble on about it because I care so much. My dad was one of those useless tools in downtown east vancouver, robbing, stealing and eating out of dumpsters...someone helped him. How can I not repay that favor and ask my community to do the same.

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written by SensGirl , July 21, 2008 (12:49:26 PM)

I used to work downtown (3rd and George)and I did not find walking around during the day anything to be afraid of. I often had to walk past the needle exchange and they just kept to themselves. Some people would ask me for change but I don't carry change and eventually they quit asking me. I, however, do not feel safe walking through the ally ways. I feel more safe on the main streets.

However, one day my husband was waiting outside to pick me up from work and this prostitue just jumped into his vehicle. He was not impressed. Plus, she didn't want to get out when he told her he was not interested.

Beksterb - thank you for your comments. Many people are too quick to judge. One of my friends mom was educated and raised a wonderful caring son. But 6 months after he moved away, something went terribly wrong. She lost her job for helping out a client. Got evicted. Got mixed into the ex-clients crowd and is now on drugs, homeless and MIA most of the time. It is very sad. I only hope someone like you will someday help her out of this. This has been so hard on her family but you can't help someone if they don't want to be helped and if you do not know where they are. Thank you again.

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written by Buzz , July 21, 2008 (12:59:16 PM)

Good letter Beksterb - sadly, you'll get trashed shortly by some readers as they just don't get it or understand it. Few people live on the street and beg for a living because they are too lazy (or whatever) to get a job. SensGirl has a good point too - people can get caught up in a whirlpool of trouble that goes out of control, and it's very easy for us to sit back and criticize and condemn. There was a very well known Prince George man who ran a large public institution here for several years. Very respectable, very compenent in his job. Fast forwarwd 15 years, and he's a complete bum living on the streets in Vancouver...a real mess. Luckily there are people who try to help instead of thinking in Nazi type terms....exterminate the vermin...or at least just let them die so we don't have to soil our shoes by walking over them. I don't enjoy being hassled for money any more than the next person, but welcome to any downtown on the planet. Thank goodness that there are some agencies/people who are at least trying to help. Okay rednecks, go ahead and do your trashing of my comments now.

Hey Buzz,,,
written by Vogel , July 21, 2008 (01:49:37 PM)

Let me hook you up with GrannyG. She'll trash your butt and eat the leftovers, or if you want to pay for it you can get that downtown too. But be careful because your boss or doctor,lawyer or local politician might be down there looking for the same thing, so sorry i just cant trash you Buzz.

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written by ccurle01 , July 21, 2008 (02:07:34 PM)

Tell me that I should not be afraid of them when they break into my back yard and steal my empties that we were saving for a little extra money for a camping trip. Or how about when I use to work in a liquor store and the jerks would push me (being a girl) around and threaten my life. This is why I own a dog who is lovable, but if someone were to come at me in a threatning way she will scare the pants off of you (no she does not bite, just a nasty bark to her).

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written by yeahrite , July 21, 2008 (03:48:03 PM)

I would like to see every "drug" dealer stoned to death on the corner of 3rd and George-or anywhere and everywhere actually.
Let's talk about the harm these druggies do when they sell to support their own habit! Destroying families and relationships-with Mothers or fathers bringing up emotionally disturbed children, who do not realize their parent is a "druggie." Fighting for food-as it is more important to support that drug habit than provide for the family.
Stealing from anyone can become the norm. And anything goes. Those people resort to becoming the same filth that got them hooked. What a circle-and the courts just give a slap and away they go again. Politicians should pick an island and drop them all on it from a plane-and let it be survival of the fittest. Why should decent law abiding people support these people who contribute absolutely nothing but harm to so many. Set up a camp they cannot escape from, but get them off the streets.
Yes, I may sound harsh, but when one has personally seen decent people destroyed by the influence of the filth on drugs-and hooking others-I just would appreciate seeing the courts draw the line and put them away so they cannot do any more harm.
All you bleeding hearts with your needle exchanges and feeling so sorry--wake up--your kid could be next-then let's have your opinion.
The poor people are the ones not on drugs-as they have to bear the heartache for the ones that are. Get it together-time you do gooders got set straight. Open your eyes to reality.

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written by travhops , July 22, 2008 (05:13:25 AM)

Everyone has choices. Any addict, hooker, panhandler, drunk has many places to go for help, but they have to make a personal choice. For every person doing drugs, panhandling, etc. you can find many more whose life stories are just as sad but they've opted to work and better themselves, not to give up. Those are the people who get my respect and admiration. Hard to feel sympathy for the drug addict trying to batter down your door while on the phone to 911, praying the RCMP get there before the door gives. Of course the Johns are despicable, as are hookers. Life is about choices and we all have them. Everyone. I came from a very bad family. I chose not to live my life that way. I chose to work rather than steal. I chose not to be an addict. I chose to raise my children in a different environment than I grew up in. I chose to put myself through school. That deoesn't make me a redneck. That makes me a working, contributing member of society. My choice.